Hi, Congrats on the release of the new unified client! I was wondering if it would be possible at some point to have an option to make todos with due dates show up in the main calendar view, much the same way calendar events show up. The (only) way I keep track of either events or todos in any of my calendars is in terms of "how many squares away are they from the 'today' square in the month view" - completely different row, only a few squares, or the immediate next square? Numbers in a list don't tell me much, it's a constant mental effort to remember/add/substract the current date to find out how close I am (and a list of ten items spread over the next five months offers no immediate perspective of how far they are from each other or how they cluster) - which is why I like "marked squares" so much more; and thankfully that's exactly how calendar events work. Any chance of something like that for todos (on the SAME calendar view)...? Best regards, Attila
On Tue, 27 Jan 2015 00:16:08 +0200 Attila Asztalos <attila.asztalos@gmail.com> wrote:
I was wondering if it would be possible at some point to have an option to make todos with due dates show up in the main calendar view, much the same way calendar events show up.
This is a feature I've been longing for for a long while. In addition to what you describe, such a todo-event could stick on today (i.e., float) until it is completed / checked off. Floating events were a distinctive feature of the commercial DateBook app that was available -- 20 years ago already -- on the Palm line of PDA devices. It is a feature I still dearly miss in all modern sophisticated calendar tools. -- Johan
Hi Atilla & Johan, I have several problems with the approach you mentioned. Standard event is something with defined start and end (so you can show it in exact place in calendar). Todo item is something what started in past (in worst case in "minus infinity") and have a deadline. So if we want to show them in the calendar, then we must show them from the start date (date when the todo was created) until the end date => the "due time" says what is the deadline but you can complete the todo any time before that deadline (no reason to show it only on deadline date). So if you have 100 todo items (real scenario in our company) then you will see 100 squares in for every day in the month view. Another approach is to use "floating" squares and show the todos only for today, but it will cause another problem with the interface consistency, because in the month view you will see todos only in "today" square, but if you switch to week view (e.g. next week) we must show these todos also in this view (=> inconsistent because in month view you see todos in different day than in the week view). Also in both cases the interface will look terrible (and will be nearly unusable) with huge number of todos. What we can do (in one of the future releases) is group todo items and show something like: [today] - item 1 - item 2 [next 3 days] - item 3 - item 4 - item 5 [next 10 days] - item 6 - item 7 [next 30 days] - item 8 [later] - item 9 - item 10 - item 11 will it help to solve your problem? JM
On 26 Jan 2015, at 23:16, Attila Asztalos <attila.asztalos@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi, Congrats on the release of the new unified client! I was wondering if it would be possible at some point to have an option to make todos with due dates show up in the main calendar view, much the same way calendar events show up. The (only) way I keep track of either events or todos in any of my calendars is in terms of "how many squares away are they from the 'today' square in the month view" - completely different row, only a few squares, or the immediate next square? Numbers in a list don't tell me much, it's a constant mental effort to remember/add/substract the current date to find out how close I am (and a list of ten items spread over the next five months offers no immediate perspective of how far they are from each other or how they cluster) - which is why I like "marked squares" so much more; and thankfully that's exactly how calendar events work. Any chance of something like that for todos (on the SAME calendar view)...? Best regards, Attila
On Tue, 27 Jan 2015 12:01:23 +0100 Ján Máté <jan.mate@inf-it.com> wrote:
So if you have 100 todo items (real scenario in our company) then you will see 100 squares in for every day in the month view.
First, I would personally not apply this to each and every todo item, but only to selected items.
Another approach is to use "floating" squares and show the todos only for today,
Yes, that is why I introduced the "floating events" for this purpose.
but it will cause another problem with the interface consistency, because in the month view you will see todos only in "today" square,
Yes.
but if you switch to week view (e.g. next week) we must show these todos also in this view
Yes.
(=> inconsistent because in month view you see todos in different day than in the week view).
This I do not understand. In either case, the item is shown on the same day.
Also in both cases the interface will look terrible (and will be nearly unusable) with huge number of todos.
That is true; see my first remark.
What we can do (in one of the future releases) is group todo items and show something like:
[today] - item 1 - item 2 [next 3 days] ...
will it help to solve your problem?
First of all, it's not a problem -- it's just a feature request :) . Let me propose a slightly different approach. For todos, it would be helpful if it were possible to show a compact list of todos in the calendar view. For example instead of the list of calendars, or possibly below the list of calendars. This would give a good 'first glance' view on what is currently important. For thid list of todos, the grouping as you suggested above could be useful. Additionally, add floating events. A floating events is similar to a todo -- it has a starting date and end date [Note: no times]. It shows up in the calendar at the starting date just like an ordinary (full-day) event. When the current date passes the starting date, the event is shown on the new current date. When the current date passes the end date the event should be shown in an emphasised way. A floating event does not disappear from the calendar view until it is explicitly completed (or deleted). Would that be easier to implement and solve the inconsistencies? Attila, would this work for you? -- Johan
Hi,
So if you have 100 todo items (real scenario in our company) then you will see 100 squares in for every day in the month view.
First, I would personally not apply this to each and every todo item, but only to selected items.
(=> inconsistent because in month view you see todos in different day than in the week view).
This I do not understand. In either case, the item is shown on the same day.
simple use case: 1.) we have 10 todos with due date: 2015-02-25 2.) today = 2015-02-10 3.) you open the month view and you will see "floating todos" as "today events" 4.) you switch to week view (still everything OK) 5.) you change the view to the next week (2015-02-16 - 2015-02-22) => we must show the "floating todos" in the interface somewhere ... lets choose the first day of the actual view (2015-02-16) 6.) then you switch back to the month view => problem ... we must show the "floating todos" again for "today" ... so simple switch between views very illogically moves data from one date to another date
Also in both cases the interface will look terrible (and will be nearly unusable) with huge number of todos.
That is true; see my first remark.
What we can do (in one of the future releases) is group todo items and show something like:
[today] - item 1 - item 2 [next 3 days] ...
will it help to solve your problem?
First of all, it's not a problem -- it's just a feature request :)
but it creates more problems than it solves ...
Let me propose a slightly different approach.
For todos, it would be helpful if it were possible to show a compact list of todos in the calendar view. For example instead of the list of calendars, or possibly below the list of calendars. This would give a good 'first glance' view on what is currently important.
For thid list of todos, the grouping as you suggested above could be useful.
this sounds good, but the left panel is too narrow to show anything important and the "right" panel (calendar view) is too wide to show todos below it (it will look very bad)
Additionally, add floating events. A floating events is similar to a todo -- it has a starting date and end date [Note: no times]. It shows up in the calendar at the starting date just like an ordinary (full-day) event. When the current date passes the starting date, the event is shown on the new current date. When the current date passes the end date the event should be shown in an emphasised way. A floating event does not disappear from the calendar view until it is explicitly completed (or deleted).
Would that be easier to implement and solve the inconsistencies?
no, because there is the same problem as I described above ... inconsistent interface (view switch moves data from one date to another) JM
Attila, would this work for you?
-- Johan
Hi Ján,
5.) you change the view to the next week (2015-02-16 - 2015-02-22) => we must show the "floating todos" in the interface somewhere ...
I think this is where the misunderstanding comes from. If a floating event has a starting date in the future, it should be shown only on the starting date. It behaves as an ordinary, future, all-day event. If a floating event has a starting date in the past, and is not yet completed, it should only be shown on todays date. It behaves as if it were an ordinary all-day event scheduled today. If a floating event has been completed, it is no longer shown at all. (Or possibly only on the date it was completed for archival purposes). So if you change the view to next week, no floating events need to be shifted in confusing ways. -- Johan
Hi Johan, I understand but I still not like this approach ... if there is something I need to do, I must see it not only today but also if I switch to the next week (especially if during the next week is the deadline). The question when I switch the view is: "what I need to do next week?", so there is no reason to not show the todo (if it is not completed). Showing it only today is something like "you must to do it today", what is not true in general (because it has a deadline which is very probably NOT today). JM
On 27 Jan 2015, at 16:04, Johan Vromans <jvromans@squirrel.nl> wrote:
Hi Ján,
5.) you change the view to the next week (2015-02-16 - 2015-02-22) => we must show the "floating todos" in the interface somewhere ...
I think this is where the misunderstanding comes from.
If a floating event has a starting date in the future, it should be shown only on the starting date. It behaves as an ordinary, future, all-day event.
If a floating event has a starting date in the past, and is not yet completed, it should only be shown on todays date. It behaves as if it were an ordinary all-day event scheduled today.
If a floating event has been completed, it is no longer shown at all. (Or possibly only on the date it was completed for archival purposes).
So if you change the view to next week, no floating events need to be shifted in confusing ways.
-- Johan
Hi, I must say I'm puzzled by the fact apparent difficulty that seems to be associated with this task - frankly, every single task manager I've used lately worked this way, displaying a task/todo on its due date in my calendar (than came Android and plunged me straight back into the dark ages). Unfortunately I can't quote every source I no longer remember, but here's at least one screenshot as a witness of how another browser-based client (Everdroid) does the same thing: the blurred tags are birthday events, I left the single Todo event due on 30th unblurred - it's visibly treated the same as an event that day, even the smaller top-left calendar highlights the 30th just because it has a todo due that day. My previous phone, a Samsung 7110 with Symbian did the exact same thing - it highlighted the day just as if it had an event, and displayed the todo text in a floating tooltip if I selected that day - I can get a screenshot of that too, if you need one (actually, the Samsung went even a step further - it had an "list of upcoming events" on its default screen which included both events and due tasks - but it only started showing them a week before they were due, which was incomparably more helpful than simply showing a full list at all times, even if the first thing is half a year away - I would have to expend effort to realize that). I have to say again, for me this industry standard behavior - I'm sure not all software does this, but the ones I've been using certainly all did... - Attila On 27-Jan-2015 17:15, Ján Máté wrote:
Hi Johan,
I understand but I still not like this approach ... if there is something I need to do, I must see it not only today but also if I switch to the next week (especially if during the next week is the deadline). The question when I switch the view is: "what I need to do next week?", so there is no reason to not show the todo (if it is not completed).
Showing it only today is something like "you must to do it today", what is not true in general (because it has a deadline which is very probably NOT today).
JM
On 27 Jan 2015, at 16:04, Johan Vromans <jvromans@squirrel.nl> wrote:
Hi Ján,
5.) you change the view to the next week (2015-02-16 - 2015-02-22) => we must show the "floating todos" in the interface somewhere ... I think this is where the misunderstanding comes from.
If a floating event has a starting date in the future, it should be shown only on the starting date. It behaves as an ordinary, future, all-day event.
If a floating event has a starting date in the past, and is not yet completed, it should only be shown on todays date. It behaves as if it were an ordinary all-day event scheduled today.
If a floating event has been completed, it is no longer shown at all. (Or possibly only on the date it was completed for archival purposes).
So if you change the view to next week, no floating events need to be shifted in confusing ways.
-- Johan
Hi Atilla, arguing using a month view screenshot is a bit shaky, because even if in this view you see the "future" todo, lot of people use week or day views, where they cannot see anything in advance (e.g. if a todo due date is the begin of the week). The screenshot you attached is (from my point of view) abuse of the calendar for todo (yes, maybe you like it, but its another story). Also if the todo is displayed on due date in the calendar, what the hell is the difference between an event and a todo (except the icon)? You can simply create an event (instead of todo) and instead of completing it, you can simply delete it. From visual point of view there is no difference ... In short: there is simply no reason to not show the todo day (two, three, ... days) before the deadline. Deadline is not "do it this date" ... deadline says: do it in worst case this date. As you can see in e-mails from Erik & Marten there are at least 4 approaches how other software show todos in calendar, so there is no "standard" for this functionality (everybody likes something different). And as I previously mentioned, I don't like any of these approaches => we have no plan to use any of them. This doesn't mean that I ignore you (or anybody else), its about implementing only things I am sure that are "right". If we find an elegant and correct solution we will implement it. JM
On 27 Jan 2015, at 20:52, Attila Asztalos <attila.asztalos@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi, I must say I'm puzzled by the fact apparent difficulty that seems to be associated with this task - frankly, every single task manager I've used lately worked this way, displaying a task/todo on its due date in my calendar (than came Android and plunged me straight back into the dark ages). Unfortunately I can't quote every source I no longer remember, but here's at least one screenshot as a witness of how another browser-based client (Everdroid) does the same thing: the blurred tags are birthday events, I left the single Todo event due on 30th unblurred - it's visibly treated the same as an event that day, even the smaller top-left calendar highlights the 30th just because it has a todo due that day. My previous phone, a Samsung 7110 with Symbian did the exact same thing - it highlighted the day just as if it had an event, and displayed the todo text in a floating tooltip if I selected that day - I can get a screenshot of that too, if you need one (actually, the Samsung went even a step further - it had an "list of upcoming events" on its default screen which included both events and due tasks - but it only started showing them a week before they were due, which was incomparably more helpful than simply showing a full list at all times, even if the first thing is half a year away - I would have to expend effort to realize that). I have to say again, for me this industry standard behavior - I'm sure not all software does this, but the ones I've been using certainly all did... - Attila
Hi Ján, our "solution" is actually more like a hack, because on Android we don't have full control over what's shown in the calendar UI. Since you have full control, you have much better options than we do. I fully agree that it's not a good solution to show tasks just like events from "start" to "due". In contrast to events it's much easier to have a large number of ongoing tasks spamming your calendar view. But there is a value in seeing tasks in a calendar-like view, just have a look at Gantt charts. Also it's more convenient to see your entire agenda for a specific day in one view (including appointments and tasks). So, how about collapsing all on-going tasks to a single bar on top of each day that reads like "10 tasks, 2 starting, 4 due" and add a button to expand the field to show all tasks for this day. You could collapse all tasks into one bar or do that per collection using the appropriate list colors. That's just one option, I'm sure there are more. cheers Marten Am 27.01.2015 um 23:50 schrieb Ján Máté:
Hi Atilla,
arguing using a month view screenshot is a bit shaky, because even if in this view you see the "future" todo, lot of people use week or day views, where they cannot see anything in advance (e.g. if a todo due date is the begin of the week). The screenshot you attached is (from my point of view) abuse of the calendar for todo (yes, maybe you like it, but its another story).
Also if the todo is displayed on due date in the calendar, what the hell is the difference between an event and a todo (except the icon)? You can simply create an event (instead of todo) and instead of completing it, you can simply delete it. From visual point of view there is no difference ...
In short: there is simply no reason to not show the todo day (two, three, ... days) before the deadline. Deadline is not "do it this date" ... deadline says: do it in worst case this date.
As you can see in e-mails from Erik & Marten there are at least 4 approaches how other software show todos in calendar, so there is no "standard" for this functionality (everybody likes something different). And as I previously mentioned, I don't like any of these approaches => we have no plan to use any of them.
This doesn't mean that I ignore you (or anybody else), its about implementing only things I am sure that are "right". If we find an elegant and correct solution we will implement it.
JM
On 27 Jan 2015, at 20:52, Attila Asztalos <attila.asztalos@gmail.com <mailto:attila.asztalos@gmail.com>> wrote:
Hi, I must say I'm puzzled by the fact apparent difficulty that seems to be associated with this task - frankly, every single task manager I've used lately worked this way, displaying a task/todo on its due date in my calendar (than came Android and plunged me straight back into the dark ages). Unfortunately I can't quote every source I no longer remember, but here's at least one screenshot as a witness of how another browser-based client (Everdroid) does the same thing: the blurred tags are birthday events, I left the single Todo event due on 30th unblurred - it's visibly treated the same as an event that day, even the smaller top-left calendar highlights the 30th just because it has a todo due that day. My previous phone, a Samsung 7110 with Symbian did the exact same thing - it highlighted the day just as if it had an event, and displayed the todo text in a floating tooltip if I selected that day - I can get a screenshot of that too, if you need one (actually, the Samsung went even a step further - it had an "list of upcoming events" on its default screen which included both events and due tasks - but it only started showing them a week before they were due, which was incomparably more helpful than simply showing a full list at all times, even if the first thing is half a year away - I would have to expend effort to realize that). I have to say again, for me this industry standard behavior - I'm sure not all software does this, but the ones I've been using certainly all did... - Attila
-- *Marten Gajda* Schandauer Straße 34 01309 Dresden Germany tel: +49 177 4427167 email: marten@dmfs.org twitter: twitter.com/dmfs_org VAT Reg. No.: DE269072391
Hi Marten,
On 28 Jan 2015, at 00:28, Marten Gajda <marten@dmfs.org> wrote:
Hi Ján,
our "solution" is actually more like a hack, because on Android we don't have full control over what's shown in the calendar UI. Since you have full control, you have much better options than we do.
I fully agree that it's not a good solution to show tasks just like events from "start" to "due". In contrast to events it's much easier to have a large number of ongoing tasks spamming your calendar view. But there is a value in seeing tasks in a calendar-like view, just have a look at Gantt charts. Also it's more convenient to see your entire agenda for a specific day in one view (including appointments and tasks).
one view for all data is useful, but mixing everything into incorrect interface is simply wrong ... Gantt chart is nice but it expects linear time (one time-line) and not time-line divided into X lines (month view). Using month view you will loose the visual advantage of this chart.
So, how about collapsing all on-going tasks to a single bar on top of each day that reads like "10 tasks, 2 starting, 4 due"
this sounds good, displaying 3 numbers (with text or icons) for each day is not a big problem, and also not breaks anything ... added to our todo list (but I cannot promise any deadline for this feature)
and add a button to expand the field to show all tasks for this day. You could collapse all tasks into one bar or do that per collection using the appropriate list colors. That's just one option, I'm sure there are more.
this not sounds as good, because if we allow to "expand these tasks" in the calendar view (e.g. in a floating div), then users will ask why they cannot complete these todos, create new todos, etc. in the expanded list ... I don't want 2 different interfaces for the same thing Cheers, JM
Hi Ján,
arguing using a month view screenshot is a bit shaky, because even if in this view you see the "future" todo, lot of people use week or day views, where they cannot see anything in advance (e.g. if a todo due date is the begin of the week). The screenshot you attached is (from my point of view) abuse of the calendar for todo (yes, maybe you like it, but its another story). I'm not saying that's how everybody should use their calendar, but I AM saying that in my experience a lot pf people do. For me, the weekly or daily views are a perversion - I have zero use for them _exactly_ because I rely on seeing my events - ALL my events - coming up some time in advance, with the month view, while I have no use for a view that displays either one single item for that day or nothing at all (on most days). That said, those todos are still visible in both the week and day view for those who use them - they're just no "advance warning", which is moot since those not using them would apparently prefer to not see them at all. And that's fine, I don't want to force them on anybody but _I_ definitely want to have them in my monthly view. Many, many other calender/todo providers seem to understand that distinction just fine.
Also if the todo is displayed on due date in the calendar, what the hell is the difference between an event and a todo (except the icon)? You can simply create an event (instead of todo) and instead of completing it, you can simply delete it. From visual point of view there is no difference ... There may not be for you, but there's a world of difference for me. Todos/tasks were invented for a reason - they can be "completed" at any time. Perhaps I get that thing done two weeks in advance, perhaps I drag it out for two weeks past due date, or I do it the exact last day - either way, I need to see them exactly as long as they're shortly upcoming AND uncompleted, and not at all the second I complete them (which does not mean I don't want to keep them recorded after). That's entirely different from events, which are pointless past their end time and impossible to complete in advance. But all of that is irrelevant really - once one buys into the game and acknowledges that in this playing field events and todos are different things that exist and that people use, it's no longer an option to just discard workflows different than one's own as invalid. That's what these things are, that's how they work, and that's what (at least some non-trivial percentage of) people expect them to do - those are given notions beyond any individual's latitude to interpret them.
In short: there is simply no reason to not show the todo day (two, three, ... days) before the deadline. Deadline is not "do it this date" ... deadline says: do it in worst case this date. ...or, in case of recurring payments (which a lot of my todos are), there's simply not much reason to do them much too early either - you're cheating yourself out of some time you already paid for; you want to make that payment as close to the due date you can, but not go over it.
As you can see in e-mails from Erik & Marten there are at least 4 approaches how other software show todos in calendar, so there is no "standard" for this functionality (everybody likes something different). And as I previously mentioned, I don't like any of these approaches => we have no plan to use any of them. ...unless most of them allow for this sort of thing optionally, which they seem to do, if you simply check the right checkbox - an obvious choice if there ever was one, since some people stand to gain while nobody loses anything.
This doesn't mean that I ignore you (or anybody else), its about implementing only things I am sure that are "right". If we find an elegant and correct solution we will implement it. Good to hear. If not, I guess I'll just have to find something that has less qualms about allowing me to do things my way - the same way I've used to be able to do them before - or I'll just have to hack that in myself if I can - yeah, what else is new.
- Attila
On 27 Jan 2015, at 20:52, Attila Asztalos <attila.asztalos@gmail.com <mailto:attila.asztalos@gmail.com>> wrote:
Hi, I must say I'm puzzled by the fact apparent difficulty that seems to be associated with this task - frankly, every single task manager I've used lately worked this way, displaying a task/todo on its due date in my calendar (than came Android and plunged me straight back into the dark ages). Unfortunately I can't quote every source I no longer remember, but here's at least one screenshot as a witness of how another browser-based client (Everdroid) does the same thing: the blurred tags are birthday events, I left the single Todo event due on 30th unblurred - it's visibly treated the same as an event that day, even the smaller top-left calendar highlights the 30th just because it has a todo due that day. My previous phone, a Samsung 7110 with Symbian did the exact same thing - it highlighted the day just as if it had an event, and displayed the todo text in a floating tooltip if I selected that day - I can get a screenshot of that too, if you need one (actually, the Samsung went even a step further - it had an "list of upcoming events" on its default screen which included both events and due tasks - but it only started showing them a week before they were due, which was incomparably more helpful than simply showing a full list at all times, even if the first thing is half a year away - I would have to expend effort to realize that). I have to say again, for me this industry standard behavior - I'm sure not all software does this, but the ones I've been using certainly all did... - Attila
Hi Atilla, yes, I understand that you want to use your old workflow, and there is a simple solution: our client is open source and you can freely modify it (AGPL). As I mentioned in my previous e-mails: I DON'T like the approach of showing todo items in calendar view, and we will NOT add this feature. But we will add some visual information about todos in the calendar view - see my answer to Marten's e-mail:
So, how about collapsing all on-going tasks to a single bar on top of each day that reads like "10 tasks, 2 starting, 4 due"
this sounds good, displaying 3 numbers (with text or icons) for each day is not a big problem, and also not breaks anything ... added to our todo list (but I cannot promise any deadline for this feature)
JM
On 28 Jan 2015, at 00:59, Attila Asztalos <attila.asztalos@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Ján,
arguing using a month view screenshot is a bit shaky, because even if in this view you see the "future" todo, lot of people use week or day views, where they cannot see anything in advance (e.g. if a todo due date is the begin of the week). The screenshot you attached is (from my point of view) abuse of the calendar for todo (yes, maybe you like it, but its another story). I'm not saying that's how everybody should use their calendar, but I AM saying that in my experience a lot pf people do. For me, the weekly or daily views are a perversion - I have zero use for them _exactly_ because I rely on seeing my events - ALL my events - coming up some time in advance, with the month view, while I have no use for a view that displays either one single item for that day or nothing at all (on most days). That said, those todos are still visible in both the week and day view for those who use them - they're just no "advance warning", which is moot since those not using them would apparently prefer to not see them at all. And that's fine, I don't want to force them on anybody but _I_ definitely want to have them in my monthly view. Many, many other calender/todo providers seem to understand that distinction just fine.
Also if the todo is displayed on due date in the calendar, what the hell is the difference between an event and a todo (except the icon)? You can simply create an event (instead of todo) and instead of completing it, you can simply delete it. From visual point of view there is no difference ... There may not be for you, but there's a world of difference for me. Todos/tasks were invented for a reason - they can be "completed" at any time. Perhaps I get that thing done two weeks in advance, perhaps I drag it out for two weeks past due date, or I do it the exact last day - either way, I need to see them exactly as long as they're shortly upcoming AND uncompleted, and not at all the second I complete them (which does not mean I don't want to keep them recorded after). That's entirely different from events, which are pointless past their end time and impossible to complete in advance. But all of that is irrelevant really - once one buys into the game and acknowledges that in this playing field events and todos are different things that exist and that people use, it's no longer an option to just discard workflows different than one's own as invalid. That's what these things are, that's how they work, and that's what (at least some non-trivial percentage of) people expect them to do - those are given notions beyond any individual's latitude to interpret them.
In short: there is simply no reason to not show the todo day (two, three, ... days) before the deadline. Deadline is not "do it this date" ... deadline says: do it in worst case this date. ...or, in case of recurring payments (which a lot of my todos are), there's simply not much reason to do them much too early either - you're cheating yourself out of some time you already paid for; you want to make that payment as close to the due date you can, but not go over it.
As you can see in e-mails from Erik & Marten there are at least 4 approaches how other software show todos in calendar, so there is no "standard" for this functionality (everybody likes something different). And as I previously mentioned, I don't like any of these approaches => we have no plan to use any of them. ...unless most of them allow for this sort of thing optionally, which they seem to do, if you simply check the right checkbox - an obvious choice if there ever was one, since some people stand to gain while nobody loses anything.
This doesn't mean that I ignore you (or anybody else), its about implementing only things I am sure that are "right". If we find an elegant and correct solution we will implement it. Good to hear. If not, I guess I'll just have to find something that has less qualms about allowing me to do things my way - the same way I've used to be able to do them before - or I'll just have to hack that in myself if I can - yeah, what else is new.
- Attila
On Tue, 27 Jan 2015 23:50:03 +0100 Ján Máté <jan.mate@inf-it.com> wrote:
Also if the todo is displayed on due date in the calendar, what the hell is the difference between an event and a todo (except the icon)? You can simply create an event (instead of todo) and instead of completing it, you can simply delete it. From visual point of view there is no difference ...
IMHO the whole point is that it can (should) float until completed. That's what makes it different from everything else that is already supported in InfCloud and most other calendar tools. -- Johan
On 28/01/2015 14:01, Johan Vromans wrote:
On Tue, 27 Jan 2015 23:50:03 +0100 Ján Máté <jan.mate@inf-it.com> wrote:
Also if the todo is displayed on due date in the calendar, what the hell is the difference between an event and a todo (except the icon)? You can simply create an event (instead of todo) and instead of completing it, you can simply delete it. From visual point of view there is no difference ...
IMHO the whole point is that it can (should) float until completed. That's what makes it different from everything else that is already supported in InfCloud and most other calendar tools.
+1. But it is not uncommon (at least in in our office) for 1 person to have tens of todo's on 1 day, finally resulting in uncompleted items after the due date. On top of that, managers tend to keep an eye on the todo's of their team. In such a scenario, the calendar view would be cluttered beyond imagination if you would display todo's in the (month) calendar view. I don't see any really good representation of todo's, other than the vertical column, sorted by due date in which the items change color as the due date is getting closer (like Outlook, Evolution, Thunderbird etc are doing). The Gantt-chart idea also seems to have its merits, but only to represent a subset of todo's (f.e. all todo's in a specific project) and this is not the scope of InfCloud. It's an interesting discussion in which these are my € 0.02. -- Vincent Van Houtte Advocaat Advocatenkantoor Suy, Van Baeveghem & Van Houtte Brusselsestraat 108 9200 Dendermonde T 052 52 06 05 T 052 77 90 05 F 052 52 06 46 W http://synergylaw.be
Hi all, I agree that it's very helpful to see tasks in the calendar view. That's why we're planning to support something like this in our Android task app. Our approach is slightly different. We want to "sync" due dates and start dates of tasks into separate Android calendars (one for each task list). We don't want to overload the calendar UI with events for ongoing tasks, that's why we only add start and due dates as two different events. Later we may add a single all-day event that contains the titles of the ongoing tasks of that day in the event description, but I'm not sure if that's of any use. cheers Marten Am 27.01.2015 um 07:15 schrieb Ján Máté:
Hi Johan,
I understand but I still not like this approach ... if there is something I need to do, I must see it not only today but also if I switch to the next week (especially if during the next week is the deadline). The question when I switch the view is: "what I need to do next week?", so there is no reason to not show the todo (if it is not completed).
Showing it only today is something like "you must to do it today", what is not true in general (because it has a deadline which is very probably NOT today).
JM
On 27 Jan 2015, at 16:04, Johan Vromans <jvromans@squirrel.nl> wrote:
Hi Ján,
5.) you change the view to the next week (2015-02-16 - 2015-02-22) => we must show the "floating todos" in the interface somewhere ... I think this is where the misunderstanding comes from.
If a floating event has a starting date in the future, it should be shown only on the starting date. It behaves as an ordinary, future, all-day event.
If a floating event has a starting date in the past, and is not yet completed, it should only be shown on todays date. It behaves as if it were an ordinary all-day event scheduled today.
If a floating event has been completed, it is no longer shown at all. (Or possibly only on the date it was completed for archival purposes).
So if you change the view to next week, no floating events need to be shifted in confusing ways.
-- Johan
-- *Marten Gajda* Schandauer Straße 34 01309 Dresden Germany tel: +49 177 4427167 email: marten@dmfs.org twitter: twitter.com/dmfs_org VAT Reg. No.: DE269072391
participants (5)
-
Attila Asztalos -
Johan Vromans -
Ján Máté -
Marten Gajda -
Vincent Van Houtte